Questions about D Plane Aim Chart

[RAswing]

Ok JG,
Went out yesterday to the WGH abd did some work at the facility it turned out to be very informative, First did some short game work pitches, chips and pour tour pitch shots and bunker wokr green side and fairway back out into the range what i noticed is tha the tour pitch hit with more vertical launch and rolled a bit but the standard pitch shot with less vertical launch rooled past the ending target more; then Hit a bunch of chips with better rhythm the shots where stopping very tight to the pin but if I went with an a aggressive action trying to get spin then it would roll way pass the pin. Now out of the green side bunker tried two styles on was an agrresive thump the sand shot got out every time but was not hitting the same spot every tiime I drew a line in the sand behind the ball. The second one was like the tour pitch but from the sand got out every time but distance control was that good. Went to the range started with wedge shots trying to control forward lean with the wedges and I felt I did it better whenI went with 3/4 shots with the wegde not play for full distance I actually control the distance better not trying to make a big backswing pivot but a baby pivot with a 3/4 arm action I could control my D plane better up to 110 yards with 3 wedges started with 61 yards and worked up to 110.

Then I went with full irons swings worked only with the 6 iron and 8 iron trying to get a constant flight the pull fade but what happen was I got a BUNCH of straight balls what i did was set a dowel at the target and a dowel pointed to the left as in the picture (HSP) vs. the target line. ( the picture you have as a thumb attachment for the D plane ) Then made swings down my left pointing HSP. Then after that I went out had lunch and thought about it all. Weht of to the WGH and the PGA tour stop got some more impact tape; Came back and hit some irons with the tape and then the woods of the deck then off the tee with some impact tape and what I saw was eye opening. I first hit the 6 ironLike if i was a really good AM player a low handicapper really good sweet spot contact staright shots to a baby cut. Then the 8 iron was more toward the toe side of the sweet spot swing down the left point HSP getting straight ball at the target flying over top of the flag and the some very baby cut shots but they where starting straight at the flag then they would finsh left a bit not of the green but left of the target; Then I got to the woods of the deck the 5 and 3 wood I was hitting the toward the bottom of the club in the center on the impact tape;

Then I noticed that and the ball went straight with a bit of a cut, but JG what I did more than hit the center was hit it High and on the toe side of the sweet spot off the tee and on the ground producing a straight away flight that then turn like a draw shot toe shots caused my woods to close the face ( GE) NIKE SUMO woods the rounded ones not the square ones..... Then I got to the driver with impact tape I was trying to hit that pull cut shot long and far.
So these where the results when I teed the ball down I got a big D plane push cut tried this way for about 20 balls; ball would start right of the target then cut away from the target. Then I teed the ball high 3 1/4 tees and started hitting start BOMBS a bunch of carry couldnt see the roll the i was carrying the 250 marker out there with the drivers on the high tee but the lower teed one was more penetrating and with more roll; Next I went with trying to aim at the target and swing at the target a flag and that produce a straight away flight with a draw at the end and it was more in the middle of both trajectories. JG with the driver my ball club strikes where more in the middle of the club the higher I teed the ball but the where more to the toe side of the sweet spot; a few where in the screws but the large majority where on the toe side of the sweet spot if it had the 9 points on the driver face then it would be on the 1,2,3 goung from top to bottom left to right... So I said I would let you know what do you think??

[John Graham]

Sounds like it was a good day. Certainly sounds like with the irons you had enough swing left to offset the hitting down on the ball to end up with straight or baby fade. Toe shots with irons with have the same gear effect as woods causing draw spin. So, if a toe shot comes out straight, that would have been a fade had you hit it solid.

Obviously, push fade is open face. That toe shot may be the main reason why you get draws and have a hard time fading the driver. Really focus on centered contact and keep using the tape. Without seeing it, which you can embed if on youtube, it sounds good.

Do you have any questions for me? Remember the swinging left for straight is only for hitting down on the ball.

[RAswing]

Thanks JG,
Yes I do have one.. If hitting the ball off the ground has to deal with true path of the clubhead and normal to the face angle for the D plane vector; and when you hit up on the ball aim a bit right and the same thing clubhead path and face angle. Then How do you teach yourself to monitor that and teach yourself to make the club head and face angle be what you need for the desired shot? To me it seems if what the clubhead and the face relationship to the club head are the key things to learn and second would be what the body does to cause that to happen or not let it happen. Yesterday I played a practice round the way you suggested in a post in the practice section was a good session What i noticed I didnt hit my 8 iron and 9 iron as straight as the 5 iron through 7 iron. If I set up for the baby fade with the 8 iron and 9 iron I dont get that shot as much I get more of the ball starting left of the target and not turn back on line it turns back right but not as much as it need stoo to be on the target as the example in the pull fade youtude video?
R/
RA

[John Graham]

I'm sorry to tell you that practice and attention to feeling is how you monitor those elements. I know some players that will alter their grip slightly to change the face shape they want. You can also experiment a little with ball position to alter the path/face relationship. If you were my student, I would recommend a no change. Keep doing what you are doing based on never seeing your swing. When you practice, purposely switch curve direction and amount after each shot and see how well you can create what you are picturing. It sounds like you are close. Keep at it.

The less curve with the shorter irons could simply be because of club design also.

[RAswing]

JG, Thanks a bunch for all the great advice; I have a few questions I went out and used the impact tape again and I really was working on sweet spot contact and when I got it say 25 balls in a row hit the same spot in the center of the driver the ball went a long way it was a straight away flight with cut spin off the driver and I heard from BManz that if you hit the sweet spot on the driver and hit the driver on the way up then you should see a fade and thats what I was getting no toe shots but long fades that rolled when the hit the ground.... That seemed correct no altering my swing just trying to make solid sweet spot contact!! It was a meaningful practice session not long enough as I worked late and it was getting dark...

JG could shaft droop be a reason you hit the ball toward the toe side of the iron face instead of the center sweet spot? I used impact tape on the irons; short irons and noticed that I hit a bunch toward the toe side of the sweet spot but not in the screws. So I was wondering I lowered my hand to raise the toe just for an experiment and it moved my contact toward the sweet spot and got a more controlled cut instead of the ball off the toe pull.. So My question about shaft droop is should I try to have my clubs bent a few degrees upright because of shaft droop? I will try my short irons that I keep hitting towards the toe first then try a few of the longer irons... What do you think?

[John Graham]

JG, Thanks a bunch for all the great advice; I have a few questions I went out and used the impact tape again and I really was working on sweet spot contact and when I got it say 25 balls in a row hit the same spot in the center of the driver the ball went a long way it was a straight away flight with cut spin off the driver and I heard from BManz that if you hit the sweet spot on the driver and hit the driver on the way up then you should see a fade and thats what I was getting no toe shots but long fades that rolled when the hit the ground.... That seemed correct no altering my swing just trying to make solid sweet spot contact!! It was a meaningful practice session not long enough as I worked late and it was getting dark...

JG could shaft droop be a reason you hit the ball toward the toe side of the iron face instead of the center sweet spot? I used impact tape on the irons; short irons and noticed that I hit a bunch toward the toe side of the sweet spot but not in the screws. So I was wondering I lowered my hand to raise the toe just for an experiment and it moved my contact toward the sweet spot and got a more controlled cut instead of the ball off the toe pull.. So My question about shaft droop is should I try to have my clubs bent a few degrees upright because of shaft droop? I will try my short irons that I keep hitting towards the toe first then try a few of the longer irons... What do you think?

Yes, shaft droop can account for more toe contact. I wouldn't bend anything yet but I would hit off a lie board to see. Especially, if you use forged irons, they come out of whack during the normal course of play ans yes, they almost always get flatter with use.